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Author Topic: Revised DC Rule  (Read 1970 times)

Stryke

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Revised DC Rule
« on: January 10, 2014, 10:48:27 AM »

I haven't gotten a response on this in the three other threads that I posted this on, and I was hoping we could start a discussion about this.

It seems like a lot of the changes we are making are to counter cr-sitting and clustering. As cwolf and a couple of others mentioned, cr sitting is the optimal defensive strategy, that is to say that there is minimal reward for playing passing lanes and almost no downside to sitting on the crease.

Therefore, one such strategy that might be taken to decrease cr-sitting is to make it harder to set up correctly and decrease its effectiveness. The rule change that I am suggesting (that others have also called for) is a revision of current dc rules.

A Defensive Crease should be defined exactly as it is now with one change: rather than a defensive players ship not being allowed inside of the cr, the rule should be amended to a defensive players ship cannot be on the crease.

This means that offensive players could get behind defenders and shoot, which makes the defensive crease sitter less fortified.

Additionally, an increase in crease-line width of 1 tile would give the offense even more room to operate behind the defenders, which means shutting off passing lanes before the play gets to the crease should become more of a priority. Also note that since current dc rules state that the puck must be traveling towards the net in order to be considered a penalty, the defenders are still allowed to stop cross-crease passes on the crease. That eill ensure that defenders are not hopeless once the puck is behind them.

Happy to hear others' thoughts on this.
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BluckaBlucka

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Re: Revised DC Rule
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2014, 12:36:26 PM »

feels like your trying to force people to play a certain way rather than giving them an option between crease sitting and playing the man

other than that i'm not 100% sure what your new penalty is but it sounds like clustering on offense and slamming into the crease to draw penalties will become really popular new kind of cheese

dono if these were the type of responses you were looking/hoping for but this is how i view this^_^
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Cwolf

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Re: Revised DC Rule
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2014, 01:35:20 AM »

I'm really surprised nobody wants to comment on this. Is this idea so far-fetched its not even worth acknowledging? I think it's not at all far-fetched and would probably work.

BB why would slamming into the crease draw penalties?

This idea definitely would not eliminate crease sitting. It probably wouldn't even reduce crease sitting. It would just give crease sitters a new vulnerability in that the offense could get in a small space behind them and shoot a goal.
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BluckaBlucka

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Re: Revised DC Rule
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2014, 12:46:03 PM »

current plays to beat a crease sitter = crash the net and these results will occur
crashing the net results in 1 of 3 outcomes
1) the shooter scores
2) the defense proxs the shot
3) crease/lag goal

changing the rule to on the crease and not in the crease would play out like this
1) the shooter scores
2) crease/lag goal
3) the defense prox it and gets a penalty

you could even gay it up even more by finding a ship back pedaling at decent speed and killing him and he has no control of how he spawns and gets a "on the crease" penalty

just think of how many goals are blocked by a defense being outside the crease line but "on the crease" the game would see a penalty 90% of the plays that occur
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Cwolf

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Re: Revised DC Rule
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2014, 02:06:34 PM »

i guess i just think it would be easy for the defenders to adapt their positioning to a new rule
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BluckaBlucka

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Re: Revised DC Rule
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2014, 02:58:44 PM »

You could say its easy to for anyone to adapt their positioning to any new rule but thats not what you guys are suggesting

what your suggesting is that they be FORCED into a new position because you don't like the way THEY CHOOSE to position now

might as well just take away all choice from this game because people will always look for the easiest way to get something done


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Cwolf

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Re: Revised DC Rule
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2014, 05:29:45 PM »

ok what if we left the dc rule as it is and changed the cr rule so shooters could go 1 or 2 tiles closer than they can now? then we wouldnt be forcing anything, actually giving people more choices. the whole point of this idea is just to let shooter get behind the defender if the defender doesnt kill him.
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BluckaBlucka

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Re: Revised DC Rule
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2014, 09:59:05 AM »

just remember i have no say or do not contribute into the changing of rules or settings i just voice my opinion/view on what has been said

i don't see a difference in either way you run this DC rule

your forcing positioning changes on people instead of giving them the option
either way you word this it still seems like slamming into the crease is going to force DC penalties

in the end all i see coming from this penalty = more stoppage in play / same amount of goals scored / more lag influenced plays to judge/complain about
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lysdexia

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Re: Revised DC Rule
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2014, 04:04:21 PM »

Blucka's argument makes no sense to me. Any changes can be thought of as forcing players to adapt. That's kind of the point. But, having to adapt does not necessarily mean less choice or less variability in play or strategy. The effect could be an increase or decrease in the options players have. We can come up with reasoned hypotheses that theorize the consequences of a change, but until we test that change we'll never know for sure.
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BluckaBlucka

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Re: Revised DC Rule
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2014, 04:37:42 PM »

should make sense since there are very few changes that force people into new positions and not allowed into the old one


you can change any ship settings it won't force them to play their position different it will give them the option to play it differently
you can change any ball settings it won't force them to play their position different it will give them the option to play it differently
if you add a new zone where defenders can't enter and offense can enter your forcing the defense to play different not giving them the option to play different

all you guys do is remove 1 option of playing and force another 1 on defenders because you don't like the current way they play
why not just give them 4-5 options to choose to play so there is 4-5 different options they can fail with if they choose wrong?
« Last Edit: January 15, 2014, 04:40:22 PM by BluckaBlucka »
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Cwolf

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Re: Revised DC Rule
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2014, 07:58:29 PM »

this wouldnt prohibit anyone from cr sitting whatsoever and i would guess that cr sitting would be just as common as it is now. only difference would be that the cr sitter would have to try to put a bullet on a forward or else the forward would get behind him. currently the cr sitter just knows that the forward by rule is not allowed to go behind him.

lys: agreed that we wont be able to figure out if this is a good or bad idea just by hypothetical theorizing
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Goldeye

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Re: Revised DC Rule
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2014, 05:11:54 AM »

This strengthens people shoving it through the defense to score (a very bad thing).  It doesn't make the D and worse against good plays.  We need to stretch the scoring area outward, not inward.
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Stryke

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Re: Revised DC Rule
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2014, 10:14:44 AM »

This strengthens people shoving it through the defense to score (a very bad thing).

Which means people should come out and break it up before it happens.

Some of the posts here are making it sound like scoring will become trivial with these changes. A cluster can still be stopped by the goalie if there are 3 people clustering towards the crease, since the goalie will know where the trajectory of that cluster is headed. A cluster makes it tougher for the offense to pass cross-crease, so it should be pretty straightforward for a goalie to stop this type of play.

We aren't taking away the defensive option of cr sitting. Like cw mentioned, they'll just have to use their bullets now instead of riding along the crease.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 10:18:13 AM by Stryke »
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Goldeye

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Re: Revised DC Rule
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2014, 10:23:02 AM »

Which means people should come out and break it up before it happens.

Not really, you may as well put more people back to prevent it, with the same or better results.  As I see it, anything that makes time and space more dangerous (so the defense is compelled to take it away) is good.  Anything else is a band aid. You don't need very much space to ram a D man.

So this could help, but it'd be a small and lame effect.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 10:25:47 AM by Goldeye »
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Cwolf

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Re: Revised DC Rule
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2014, 08:01:33 PM »

i dont know. ultimately the offense is going to try to get to the goal no matter what the rules are. im not convinced that this rule would cause offense to attack the goal any harder than they already do. im also not convinced that would be a bad thing. ideally it should be possible to make pretty open ice plays and also drive hard to the net for gritty goals.
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