Subspace Hockey/Football Zone Forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: Radical Goalie LMB  (Read 1448 times)

zero seven

  • RSFL Captain
  • Inspiration to Trolls Everywhere
  • *
  • Posts: 2500
  • :D
Radical Goalie LMB
« on: June 29, 2015, 05:51:13 PM »

Fact:
  • Goalie is the least fun rewarding position in the zone, both in pub and in league.
  • Players must choose between playing goalie, playing offense, or not playing at all
Theory:
  • If more people were interested in playing goalie, it would increase pub activity
  • If more people were interested in playing goalie, it would be easier for RSHL captains to recruit rosters that show up on a consistent basis AND are more competitive.
Hypothesis:
  • Dramatically changing a core game mechanic would enable every player to play both goalie and offense in the same game, providing a significant boost in the # of players who are willing to get in net and reducing the importance of the position that is the most difficult to fill in both pub and RSHL.
  • Enabling players to play 2-ways eliminates the necessity of choosing between an important, necessary position that is very un-rewarding and contributing in the 'fun' role of offense/mid (think guys like Rage, Zeppelin, Bitemark, Hasek, Arcadian, Superdan, Bopmem, Saving who have to decide which role provides the best combination of enjoyment/value to the team)
  • Traditional offensive role players have already been forced into goalie due to positional scarcity (Iggy, Bitemark, Stickman, Artos, ghostkilla), but the # of people who would now be willing to play goalie would increase dramatically (think guys like J-walking, Jugg, Violence, Lukez, Antsy, lilwade, dragonwing, King whose primary position is offense but are more than serviceable in net).
Evidence for Potential Success:
  • Years of pub/scrim data that proves that many players will ultimately spec rather than play goalie, but are willing to play if they do not have to commit to a full period in net (rotation).
  • Other zones have implemented this quick offense to defense transition mechanic, albeit in a less stringent manner (Powerball allows you to drop a port anywhere on the map)
Outlined Changes
  • Have a ?command that allows any player on the ice to get instantly ship changed to goalie and warped to their own net
    • Player must have full energy
    • Player must be on their own side of center ice
    • Puck must not be past center ice
    • Player can change back to regular skater when at full energy
    • Player can change into goalie w/out autowarp when at full energy and on their own side of blueline (E.g. you switched to skater after a defensive steal and started to skate out to push on the attack, but then your team loses the puck. Crash back to net. Or once you are set on D you can switch goalies w/ someone who is better)

Pros:
  • Allows an extra skater on the ice that is engaged w/ both offense and defense and always involved in the game
  • Maybe more breakaway's? (Defense incentivized to trap more to force odd man rush as opposing team's LMB is forced to warp into goalie)
  • Rewards 2-way players who can transition quickly
Cons:
  • Defensive goalie only specialists potentially less useful (sorry Linix)
  • Team's w/ no chemistry not getting a player in net fast enough or confusion over who was going to warp in
  • Fear of passing backwards on offensive rotation?
  • Halfcourt slapshots less effective (sorry Puker / Fur), may need some rule modifications to prevent slapshot off wall being used to get puck quickly across center ice to prevent goalie warp
Programming (From lay persons perspective w/ no knowledge of ASSS or Subgame):
  • Player must have full energy
  • Easy to detect, already used for allowing manual ship changes / changing frequencies
  • Player must be on their own side of center ice
  • Code already done for determining face-off violations
  • Puck must not be past center ice
  • Puck location can be calculated, but not already coded per my knowledge
  • I suggest only coding one large ASSS region, entire left side of rink from center ice.
  • Is puck on Left side? Yes. Is player using ?Command defending goal on right side? (This information is already available and stored in a variable) If yes, autowarp to goalie. If no, do nothing.
  • Player can change back to regular skater when at full energy
  • No coding necessary
  • Player can change into goalie w/out autowarp when at full energy and on their own side of blueline (E.g. you switched to skater after a defensive steal and started to skate out to push on the attack, but then your team loses the puck. Crash back to net. Or once you are set on D you can switch goalies w/ someone who is better)
  • Requires some code changes to allow a ship change to happen without warping the player to the bench/blueline area
« Last Edit: November 20, 2015, 12:54:00 PM by zero seven »
Logged
it's not as if i am the only person on my team with my brain.

Doobie

  • Local Moderator
  • Registered Posting Whore
  • *****
  • Posts: 2011
Re: Radical Goalie LMB
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2015, 08:33:45 PM »

Allowing the person playing goalie to be flexible is a good idea.  I am not sure this is the way to go about it, particularly for the RSHL.  While it may improve pub I am pretty sure not wanting to play goalie isn't the reason the zone population is at 0 24/7.

That being said... for pub?  Automatically switching the guy farthest from the goal to goalie and releasing him after a goal/the ball crosses CI again.  Perfect.  Autobrotation.

For the RSHL:

The physical line drawn and conditions you laid out create an extreme decision point at center ice.  Creating weird races between players, the puck, and available energy for a team to be able to have a goalie.  A slight mistiming, a well placed/timed dump into the zone, and an entire possession is played without a goalie?  A well placed forecheck at the right time stops the other teams best goalie from switching?  Eh...

A possible improvement is moving the puck position requirement to the defensive blueline rather than CI... but I don't know if that is much better.

I don't think this will play out in the way you have anticipated.  It is far more likely to me that this just allows the assigned goalie to move forward past CI to better watch the play and grab the odd puck, before quickly warping back. 

I don't know if all the warp/shipchange/ball interactions have been worked out over the years but I sure don't want to find out how many times Bopmem2 can warp the ball around in one game.

The goals caused by a team not meeting the conditions laid out to me feel far closer to goalie tank goals than anything else.

Creating a fluid transition where the first player into the crease becomes goalie feels a bit better to me but the rules surrounding it that come to mind are all arbitrary and flawed.
Logged

Goldeye

  • Local Moderator
  • My post count proves I'm better than you
  • *****
  • Posts: 5363
Re: Radical Goalie LMB
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2015, 01:50:16 PM »

Thanks a lot for the elaborate post on this 07.  My personal feeling is strongly against anything that is gimmicky or magical.  I think a key element for a good sport game is consistent physics.  That said, the practical value of getting goalies involved is obvious so I'm not against playing around with the concept (and I wouldn't get in the way of an overwhelmingly popular idea, which afaik this is not).

Thanks a lot Doobie for thinking this through some more.  I think this can fly in pub -- and maybe try in scrim -- ASAP, but isn't reasonable for competitive play.  It'd be redonkulous to see people gaming it.

Also, I am very comfortable with the idea of transitioning players into goalie when they get back if we can think out a smooth way to do it.  I think that it can be worked out decently on the technical side without shipchanging the player.  We can maybe use LVZ to put a goalie indicator on the player.  This is something to play around with during the season.
Logged
Shlazzer> dont you ppl realize once our sun goes supernova, NOTHING anyone or anything has EVER done or said on this planet will EVER matter?

Thrill> also i have a gr8 personality

I made $124.03 for a single season of HZ!
Nubby> U could b 3rd highest payed player
Nubby> Maybe 2nd

warrior11

  • HZ Media
  • Inspiration to Trolls Everywhere
  • *
  • Posts: 2780
Re: Radical Goalie LMB
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2016, 06:33:36 PM »

either make the game so the goalie gets way more shots on net or somehow do wat 07 suggistid in some way shape or form, rite now goalie is so boring takes 300 decades sumtimes b4 ur involfed
Logged

Nax

  • Making a Name
  • *
  • Posts: 170
  • ______________
Re: Radical Goalie LMB
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2016, 07:29:23 PM »

Quote
Fact: Players must choose between playing goalie, playing offense, or not playing at all

Not a fact, defense exists. Plenty of teams have also had designated midfield support positions. Of course, it is hockey, so the lines become blurry in practice, but the structure is still there.

Unfortunately, goalie is and has always been that way, in nearly any sport that has one... there are always exceptions, but let's be honest, most people hated getting goalie when they were playing sports as kids haha.

One option is to eliminate goalie ship altogether, games like rocket league don't have designated goalies. Goalie becomes who ever assumes the position... However that is a difficult thing to do in hockey zone, as it would mean making tremendous changes to current settings(goal size, OT speeds...) to find out IF it even works for hz...

I think this is an issue in which at this point in ss's lifecycle we would have to pay a large price to find out if there is even a fix for it, without any guarantees that after that price is paid, we would have found a good solution at all.
Logged

zero seven

  • RSFL Captain
  • Inspiration to Trolls Everywhere
  • *
  • Posts: 2500
  • :D
Re: Radical Goalie LMB
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2016, 10:37:50 PM »

One option is to eliminate goalie ship altogether, games like rocket league don't have designated goalies. Goalie becomes who ever assumes the position...

Did you even read the proposal?
Logged
it's not as if i am the only person on my team with my brain.
 

Page created in 0.071 seconds with 19 queries.