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Author Topic: Static Damage  (Read 907 times)

Thrill HZ

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Re: Static Damage
« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2017, 02:58:47 PM »

level 1 bullets should not be able to consistently take out a spider/terrier no matter what their velocity is. You're basically completely negating the warbirds checking handicap if you do that, because what are the odds they are going to be at low velocity when they are going for these checks? Almost none. It's actually fairly easy to hit lunges with the warbird because of its speed and handling. This doesn't matter when there is a reasonable possibility of a player surviving the check, thus making the decision making an important factor. Maybe you wait to go for the check until you have noticed they have thrusted a lot or just got checked by another ship, etc. But if you make it to where the warbird gets significantly increased damage at high velocity? You might as well just remove their low bullet damage altogether.

And as for the chances being too low right now... I'd say it's the opposite. lvl 1 bullets kill high or full energy ships way pretty regularly as it is and that's one of the problems I have with random damage to begin with. 
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Goldeye

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Re: Static Damage
« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2017, 03:56:49 PM »

level 1 bullets should not be able to consistently take out a spider/terrier no matter what their velocity is. You're basically completely negating the warbirds checking handicap if you do that, because what are the odds they are going to be at low velocity when they are going for these checks? Almost none. It's actually fairly easy to hit lunges with the warbird because of its speed and handling. This doesn't matter when there is a reasonable possibility of a player surviving the check, thus making the decision making an important factor. Maybe you wait to go for the check until you have noticed they have thrusted a lot or just got checked by another ship, etc. But if you make it to where the warbird gets significantly increased damage at high velocity?

Has a chance != basically negates.  Your conclusion "You might as well just remove their low bullet damage altogether" is ridiculous.
But, your argument about timing the check is a relevant one.  Counterpoint there is that it doesn't apply to people deliberately going straight through a L1 at full energy (a situation which also tends to increase the VRBL because the carrier's velocity matters too).

The core question here is whether the any-ship-but-wb ball carrier lunging at an WB/WZL is lame.

Quote
And as for the chances being too low right now... I'd say it's the opposite. lvl 1 bullets kill high or full energy ships way pretty regularly as it is and that's one of the problems I have with random damage to begin with.
If the numbers are the same as in Zero Seven's post, there is a 0% chance of a WB/WZL bullet killing a full energy non-WB ship.

I think 70/30 (for an actual kill, not an L2) would be a good target for the max VRBL result.
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Fur of Fur

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Re: Static Damage
« Reply #22 on: January 28, 2017, 07:01:36 AM »

I thought at the moment a full thrust Wessel warbird bullet had like a 3-5% chance to kill a spider / terr / weasel.

Barely Worth the risk of lunging as you get close to your NET

25-33% May be enticing, enough, maybe we could introduce a pucktime penalty on checkpickup? To reduce the chance of a WB  lunge and Carry across entire Ice making a goal... ( If thats OP )
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Steve Cheese

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Re: Static Damage
« Reply #23 on: January 28, 2017, 12:08:13 PM »

30% seems way too high.
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zero seven

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Re: Static Damage
« Reply #24 on: January 28, 2017, 02:00:09 PM »

I think the whole point of testing static dmg is to make things at least 'feel' more deterministic. Velocity based dmg I agree in theory can be deterministic, assuming everyone knows the settings, but in practice you have ships slowing down to increase their chance to absorb a check, which feels non intuitive to me. I also believe in practice there's probably less than 5 people in the zone who have a natural feel for how it works and uses it effectively to their advantage.

While I have zero problem with that select few having an advantage based on their skill, I think the majority of the zone would benefit more from reducing or eliminating velocity damage entirely so that the skill required is energy management - which 100% of the zone is familiar with.

Gold eye, I see no problem with a ship 'knowing' they will absolutely tank an L1. That is skill, it's just energy management vs calculated risk that a full velocity L1 ship has a 30% chance of killing.
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Goldeye

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Re: Static Damage
« Reply #25 on: January 28, 2017, 08:51:51 PM »

Gold eye, I see no problem with a ship 'knowing' they will absolutely tank an L1. That is skill, it's just energy management vs calculated risk that a full velocity L1 ship has a 30% chance of killing.

The problem isn't about skill, it's that lunges are good for the game; lunge attempts create rush offense when successful and create holes in the defense when unsuccessful.  If lunging is guaranteed useless then the smart thing to do is always back up, which is the opposite of fun
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Shlazzer> dont you ppl realize once our sun goes supernova, NOTHING anyone or anything has EVER done or said on this planet will EVER matter?

Thrill> also i have a gr8 personality

I made $124.03 for a single season of HZ!
Nubby> U could b 3rd highest payed player
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Doobie

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Re: Static Damage
« Reply #26 on: January 28, 2017, 09:16:46 PM »

My thoughts are the warbird/weasel gets the velocity based kill at basically ninepedo velocities, full running start, basically a charge.



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