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Author Topic: sports science: space hockey slowest game in universe  (Read 4928 times)

Cwolf

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sports science: space hockey slowest game in universe
« on: August 31, 2013, 01:40:45 PM »

i went full nerd mode and tried to do a test to measure puck speeds and ship speeds. basically i think both are too slow and puck speed is way too slow and i wanted to quantify it to make my point of view more undeniable.

for each test i picked two points A and B on rink. then i stood stationary at point A and passed to point B (without slapshot) and measured how long it took. then i started stationary at point A and flew to point B (without thrust) and measured how long it took. repeated for each ship. please note the test is not actually scientific whatsoever and the errors are presumably quite large.

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first test: length of the rink (point A is on left wall, point B is straight across on right wall)
this test was a total failure. no ship could even pass this far. the weasel was the only ship that could even clear both blue lines. i then tried to fix this by using slapshot, but that was a total failure too. only the weasel could clear the length of the rink with a slapshot. evidently you need to be brett hull to do this

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second test: width of the rink (point A is on top wall, point B is straight down on bottom wall)
wb: ship: 6.38, puck: 12.56
jav: ship: 6.82, puck: 7.57
spider: ship: 6.83, puck: 10.58
levi: ship: 7.15, puck: 8.04
terr: ship: 6.57, puck: 10.55
weasel: ship 6.83, puck 6.00

ranking the 12 times:
1 weasel puck: 6.00
2 wb ship: 6.38
3 terr ship: 6.57
4 jav ship: 6.82
5 spider ship: 6.83
6 weasel ship: 6.83
7 levi ship: 7.15
8 jav puck: 7.57
9 levi puck: 8.04
10 terr puck: 10.55
11 spider puck: 10.58
12 wb puck: 12.56

note: the 5 slowest times are puck times. and our brett hull ship can get puck across width of rink in 6 seconds. woop woop

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third test: blue line to blue line (point A is on blue line, point B is straight across on other blue line)
wb: ship: 4.71, puck: 6.25    (fun fact: wb can almost catch up to its own pass by red line, but not quite)
jav: ship: 5.12, puck: 4.50
spider: ship: 5.08, puck: 5.37
levi: ship: 5.21, puck: 4.65
terr: ship: 4.90, puck: 5.74
weasel: ship: 5.02, puck: 3.82

ranking the 12 times:
1 weasel puck: 3.82
2 jav puck: 4.50
3 levi puck: 4.65
4 wb ship: 4.71
5 terr ship: 4.90
6 weasel ship: 5.02
7 spider ship: 5.08
8 jav ship: 5.12
9 levi ship: 5.21
10 spider puck: 5.37
11 terr puck: 5.74
12 wb puck: 6.25

note: the 3 slowest times are puck times and brett hull can pass from blue line to blue line in UNDER FOUR SECONDS

---

in conclusion space hockey is slowest game in universe
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Kula

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Re: sports science: space hockey slowest game in universe
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2013, 01:50:23 PM »

I think the thing that will always work against speeding it up is lag :(
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BluckaBlucka

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Re: sports science: space hockey slowest game in universe
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2013, 02:07:37 PM »

am i the only 1 that is sad to see fastest ship in game (only real reason to pick a warbird) is only .67 seconds faster than the slowest ship in the game
TIME TO GET AWAY FROM THESE SHIT SETTINGS THAT MAKE 0 SENSE
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shlazzer

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Re: sports science: space hockey slowest game in universe
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2013, 02:50:38 PM »

not 0 sense

.67 sense
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Joe~Sakic

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Re: sports science: space hockey slowest game in universe
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2013, 04:58:10 PM »

am i the only 1 that is sad to see fastest ship in game (only real reason to pick a warbird) is only .67 seconds faster than the slowest ship in the game
TIME TO GET AWAY FROM THESE SHIT SETTINGS THAT MAKE 0 SENSE
You aren't taking into consideration that huge difference that thrust makes. Also, time isn't really a good way to actually conceptualize the difference in speeds between 2 ships. Two race cars could race and and up finishing half a second apart but there could be a 20 car length difference between them. If wb really is so useless as you seem to think then you wouldn't see it being used in league games.
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Cwolf

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Re: sports science: space hockey slowest game in universe
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2013, 05:13:35 PM »

these times are measured with ships starting at zero speed so thrust is definitely a factor

real life width of nhl rink is 26 meters. so real life analogy of the width-of-rink test is a 26 meter race starting at a standstill. i expect if you took nhl skaters and raced them in a 26 meter race, you would get much more variance than my numbers as blucka is saying. also, for frame of reference, some (ISU) speed skaters can do 100m in under 10 seconds. here we have wb doin 26 meters in 6.38 seconds. warbird not destined for career in speed skating i guess

edit: just measured wb doing length of rink, which in nhl is 61 meters, and got time of 12.77

double edit: the only ship which can accomplish the incredible feat of shooting a puck across the ENTIRE 61 METER length of rink is the weasel (with slapshot function of course). i measured this at 11.70 seconds
« Last Edit: August 31, 2013, 05:35:44 PM by Cwolf »
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Lawn Dwarf

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Re: sports science: space hockey slowest game in universe
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2013, 05:36:19 PM »

to say something isn't being used in league games and providing those stats is kind of misleading.

teams like breakaway and creasers will roll with 3 warbirds in one line that really skews the overall numbers, also see- levi

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Joe~Sakic

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Re: sports science: space hockey slowest game in universe
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2013, 05:42:31 PM »

these times are measured with ships starting at zero speed so thrust is definitely a factor

real life width of nhl rink is 26 meters. so real life analogy of the width-of-rink test is a 26 meter race starting at a standstill. i expect if you took nhl skaters and raced them in a 26 meter race, you would get much more variance than my numbers as blucka is saying. also, for frame of reference, some (ISU) speed skaters can do 100m in under 10 seconds. here we have wb doin 26 meters in 6.38 seconds. warbird not destined for career in speed skating i guess

edit: just measured wb doing length of rink, which in nhl is 61 meters, and got time of 12.77

double edit: the only ship which can accomplish the incredible feat of shooting a puck across the ENTIRE 61 METER length of rink is the weasel (with slapshot function of course). i measured this at 11.70 seconds
"then i started stationary at point A and flew to point B (without thrust)"
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BluckaBlucka

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Re: sports science: space hockey slowest game in universe
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2013, 05:46:44 PM »

no one would play warbird if we had more than 2 goalies that could consistently save breakaways superdan/linix
setting wise no one should score in any ship on a breakaway
but its so bad that we've seen 10 or so spider breakaway goals the ship that is by far the worst at breakaways
when spiders are scoring you know we have serious goalie problems in this league so dependent on their heavy crease sits they can't show any bit of skill when needed

goalies are the only reason we can say any ship is viable
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Cwolf

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Re: sports science: space hockey slowest game in universe
« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2013, 05:52:53 PM »

yes that is a fair point joe.

using thrust i got wb doing length of rink in 11.65 seconds.

edit: thats an average speed of about 5.2 meters per second or 11.6 mph ZOOM
« Last Edit: August 31, 2013, 06:03:10 PM by Cwolf »
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warrior11

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Re: sports science: space hockey slowest game in universe
« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2013, 07:22:38 PM »

i jus c 500 numbirs n am not apil 2 read this experimint cud sum1 summarize if apil 2
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Cwolf

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Re: sports science: space hockey slowest game in universe
« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2013, 08:26:54 PM »

ok simpler:

most ships fly and pass at about the same speed. you can see this by flying backwards and passing like an old school vets game faceoff. in every other ball game on earth though, players can pass much faster than they can move.

another thing: if you imagine our rink is an nhl size rink, then the wb tops out at roughly 12 mph. fast hockey players can double that
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Joe~Sakic

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Re: sports science: space hockey slowest game in universe
« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2013, 09:59:58 PM »

yes that is a fair point joe.

using thrust i got wb doing length of rink in 11.65 seconds.

edit: thats an average speed of about 5.2 meters per second or 11.6 mph ZOOM
But this game is in space. It's probably like 1 light-year from one side of the arena to the other.
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Thrill HZ

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Re: sports science: space hockey slowest game in universe
« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2013, 11:57:01 PM »

  warbird is at a terrible disadvantage against teams that actually play defense and are at least average skill level. There are some teams that I'm not sure I would ever want to field a warbird against in any capacity in a playoff setting. Nothing is more pathetic than a warbird against a team sitting on the crease which is exactly what the playoffs are all about, teams being conservative and defensive. It really only has any kind of advantage in the current settings on odd man rushes which a) happen a lot less often in current top tier play and b) its very hard to score against top tier goalies with a warbird on a breakaway or 1v1.
 BluckaBlucka is right, the only reason warbird has any success in league games right now are some of these run and gun games and games without a ton of defense which won't happen in the playoffs. His goalie point is also very relevant, you can watch a lot of the warbird goals this and most of them come about as a result of capitalizing on very gross goalie errors. This will barely ever happen against any top tier goalie and in the playoffs they'll have at least 3 ships backing them up at almost every instance most likely. Any player that sticks with warbird through the playoffs will have very few opportunities to be effective.
  In addition, off the ball checking has gotten to a really ridiculous level. Not only does it skew stats terribly, its just way too easy to keep a warbird out of the play for too long. If the warbird is able to be hampered so easily it needs to be stronger to compensate for this glaring weakness. These games with warbirds having over 50 deaths per game on a regular basis are just ridiculous, the warbird should have more deaths than other ships but the proportion compared to others is just way out of line.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2013, 12:02:41 AM by Thrill HZ »
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African panda

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Re: sports science: space hockey slowest game in universe
« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2013, 12:51:02 AM »

Agree, although I think WB is Underated as a Defender if played correctly, and I think only change I would make to WB right now besides maybe speed is fade shot back to what it was 2 or 3 seasons ago.
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Aqualicy

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Re: sports science: space hockey slowest game in universe
« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2013, 03:47:24 AM »

Improve l1 bullet damage, improve Warbird thrust, and give it two shot speeds instead of a delayed slap shot.
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Acido

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Re: sports science: space hockey slowest game in universe
« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2013, 07:45:45 AM »

Whole point is to always speed up your passes & shots with thrusters
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Cwolf

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Re: sports science: space hockey slowest game in universe
« Reply #17 on: September 01, 2013, 10:28:09 AM »

ok i have done another test where i attempted to calculate the maximum speed the puck can possibly go in the zone. i think this speed occurs when a weasel is moving at full speed and does a slap shot.

this was too hard to measure in one act so i split it up. first step i did was to measure the time it took for weasel to go from center red line to blue line, constantly at full speed (with thrusters). then i measured the time it took a slapshot from a stationary weasel to go from center red line to blue line. i treated this distance as 7.62 meters (nhl distance) and then calculated the mph of each thing separately. then added the speeds together. i believe this gives an effective measure of the maximum possible speed the puck will ever move in our zone.

for frame of reference, zdeno chara can shoot puck at 105 mph

weasel at full speed flies from center red to blue line in 1.82 seconds, at constant speed of 4.19 meters per second, or 9.4 mph

stationary weasel shoots slap shot from center red to blue line .95 seconds, with average speed of 8.02 meters per second, or 17.9 mph.

adding these speeds up gives 27.3 mph

now look im not saying we should have the exact same numbers but its a little weird that our video game is 1/4 speed of the real life game it is supposed to emulate. maybe we can try speeding it up, or making rink smaller

for frame of reference 27.3 mph is slower than this "car" is capable of going. note car has 3 wheels and is made out of a recycling bin:
« Last Edit: September 01, 2013, 10:33:17 AM by Cwolf »
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Steve Cheese

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Re: sports science: space hockey slowest game in universe
« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2013, 12:04:31 PM »

slapshot moves way faster if shot from a max speed...last experiment can be thrown out
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Kula

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Re: sports science: space hockey slowest game in universe
« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2013, 12:11:49 PM »

Due to lag there isn't much more speed we can add I think we're almost at the limit.

I think we could try to make the rink a bit smaller and remove a skater and play 5v5.

Fewer players on the ice would have numerous benefits from opening up space to making it easier to field more competitive teams.

This could also help with lag and reduce the effectiveness of turtling and crease sitting. That is not to say scoring will be any easier or more difficult.

Think of it this way, when we play OT matches most teams pull their CR sitter even though the stakes are higher. Why? Because you need mobility in OT and you need your best players, usually your best player isn't on defense since the smartest players in league already know how to play a two way game.

Thus mistakes are magnified although lunging is reduced especially in these OT games, it would be interesting to see how teams adapt and strategize for a full game of 5v5. Worth some bummer league testing at least :)
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