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Author Topic: Offseason League Settings Options  (Read 3012 times)

Goldeye

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Re: Offseason League Settings Options
« Reply #20 on: November 27, 2013, 03:06:38 PM »

It doesn't matter whether velocity takes away from the damage or adds, if you're starting from a different place. 
Math: 50 + [-50,50] = 0 + [0,100] = 100 - [0,100] = [0,100].

We chose to start with the 'original' bullet damage distribution (from when we started doing random our way) and then add velocity on top of that. The thinking was something along the lines of only making bullets stronger at that point.

If we want to rethink bullet distributions, that's all well and dandy, but unless we start factoring in bullet direction or ship orientation, base+bonus is going to be the easiest way to work on the numbers.



For making checks more risky, there is another variable: bullet length (= (player velocity + bullet velocity) * bullet alive time).  With shorter bullets, a back-skating ship can shoot all he wants with very low odds of making contact.  Shortening bullets makes ships step further into the check to increase their odds, thus reducing their ability to recover.

Also, getting rid of the ball carry penalty might give forwards that extra edge to get past overcommitted D more easily.

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Cwolf

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Re: Offseason League Settings Options
« Reply #21 on: November 27, 2013, 03:38:04 PM »

it would make a lot of sense for spider/terr to have a significantly longer delay between bullets than jav/levi.
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Doobie

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Re: Offseason League Settings Options
« Reply #22 on: November 27, 2013, 04:34:34 PM »

Yes
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Arnk Kilo Dylie

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Re: Offseason League Settings Options
« Reply #23 on: November 27, 2013, 04:40:59 PM »

If there's no objection to solidifying terrier as "not a defender" then it makes sense for that ship--less so for spider. Also keep in mind javelin has the longest delay in the game presently.
Right now bullet delays are (and largely have always been:)
levi < wb < terrier < weasel < spider < jav
and goalies are somewhere in the middle.

There's some merit to redgun ships having a lower delay even though they're not defenders, as it's basically they have similar power to a yellowgun in two shots but overall lower DPS because it takes two shots.

So maybe:

levi < wb < weasel < spider < jav < terr

Would be a good model? There's also no reason there has to be a ladder like that but in a game where ships are all fairly similar, every additional difference adds some desirable variety.
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Cwolf

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Re: Offseason League Settings Options
« Reply #24 on: November 27, 2013, 04:56:05 PM »

although the spider is a defender it is supposed to be the light agile defender, so it would still make sense for it to have longer delay between bullets.

that being said i would also increase the power of spider and terr bullets to have fewer/no duds.

edit: also i dont think it makes any sense for jav to have the longest delay in the game. its supposed to be a strong ship.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2013, 05:14:51 PM by Cwolf »
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Tjian

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Re: Offseason League Settings Options
« Reply #25 on: November 27, 2013, 06:18:27 PM »

Just have to make sure not to nerf defense ships too far because the worse they become, the greater the reliance on having to fall back to the crease is. Blucka's points are accurate that it's kind of stupid that spiders can essentially just spray a couple of bullets in the direction of, say a warbird, and that's usually good enough to ward them off.

Just going too far will probably have negative results as from a defenders point of view from this season: random damage + lag (tanking) + ball killing = bullets are worthless anyways so might as well just not rely on them and fall back as far as possible, if not all the way to the crease, and just cut off shot/pass angles.
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Arnk Kilo Dylie

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Re: Offseason League Settings Options
« Reply #26 on: November 27, 2013, 06:34:58 PM »

Javelin having long delay isn't a big deal. Its strength is the blue bullet--literally every other part of the bullet isn't great (high cost which is offset by its high energy, shortest bullet length in the game which has minor situational advantages only), but that is okay since it's a ship geared for offense. Also it separates it from levi better the farther away their delays are.
I think conceptually it makes sense to take terrier down in rank because it's not primarily a defender ship, but on the other hand if people are looking for defensive potential we don't want those people switching into jav, for example, instead post-nerf, so jav really shouldn't be improved at the same time.
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BluckaBlucka

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Re: Offseason League Settings Options
« Reply #27 on: November 27, 2013, 06:40:11 PM »

so I want to know is there anyway to implement some sort of redirecting?

say ship A slapshots across the ice to ship B and he drops say a 3 tile brick and removes his prox so the ball can bounce off the brick with ship A's shot power to make it so we have distance shots be more viable?

could have a play where if you're not facing the right direction with prox being negated for a second you could have kind of an ass shot redirection ( for tricky and fun plays )

also remember that there is no threat beyond the front of the crease so asking a D to be anywhere else is just stupid
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Doobie

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Re: Offseason League Settings Options
« Reply #28 on: November 27, 2013, 06:49:02 PM »

Am I simply talking to a wall whenever I mention prox reduction?
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BluckaBlucka

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Re: Offseason League Settings Options
« Reply #29 on: November 27, 2013, 07:51:46 PM »

I think you're thinking like a brick wall if you think prox reduction is going to effective defense more than it will effective offense (in a bad way)

Prox reduction is probably one of the smallest changes we can make as far as influencing the way people play defense ( prox is short could be shorter but lag changes the way we see real prox )

The real problem is there is no real consistent threat from around the blueline. Unless the goalies are afk there is no real way to score from beyond the crease line and you don't want to promote a game that is so boring goalies can't stay awake for 12 minutes. There also isn't really anything creative to throw people off what I offered has a lot of play making potential.

Also I would like to see more breakaways thats why I mentioned most of the stuff but it wouldn't matter because I couldn't think of a way to make a game fair to where a 1vs0 is 50/50 and 2vs0 is 100/100
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WhiteIrishRebel

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Re: Offseason League Settings Options
« Reply #30 on: November 27, 2013, 08:21:39 PM »

I haven't read much so apologies for any redundancy, and I realize this subforum is for like a whole reworking of the settings and are concepts that go way over my head and this thread isn't really for miniscule changes - but 2 very simple (and obvious and recurring-ly asked for) things that have been needed for a long time should be added to this off season league!

1) Get rid of goalie mutli fire

2) Get rid of duds from goalie bullets

On the obvious surface, #1 limits a goalies abilities & #2 increases it - so maybe goalies won't complain? No goalies want goalie duds, but they also complain whenever I suggest getting rid of goalie multi fire.

But #1 has the potential to create slightly more offense via [for lack of a better phrase] deke-ing the goalie and more close quarter freedom for the ball carrier in relation to the goalie to help create more inspiring offensive play without the fear of getting auto checked for getting too close. It may not be a game changer on offense like the implementation of the slapshop but instead more minor like a successful post bounce move but the point is to just create more options in general and keep adding to an offense's arsenal and creativity. The possibility of a missed check creates more options, more usable space and more / longer offensive possessions.

Goalie multi fire is very similar to the lancaster ship's prox in that they both inhibit / limit creativity on offense. Three bullets each shooting out at different angles is just absurd to me and significantly dumbs down 1 of the few skills one can possess in hz, checking ability. So not only can this add to the offense, but it can also add a skill that helps differentiate goalies from one another. We try not to use IRL hockey to compare / contrast with this game but I am going to attempt to use an analogy. Goalie stick / puck handling in the NHL is something a handful of goalies can do at a superior level. It is a very noticeable aspect of the game. Our goalie checking can be the NHL's goalie stick / puck handling. Not the best analogy since we kinda already have our own goalie puck handling skill in our game but hopefully you get what I'm going for. That with single fire for goalies, we can actually create an individual goalie skill and a separation in skill amongst goalies in this one area of goal tending. But with goalie multi fire, every goalie is equal in checking pretty much. Make it an actual skill ffs.

EDIT: And for #2, goalie duds are just lame. How do you feel like a man scoring off one? Same can be asked for goalies who use multi fire actually.

« Last Edit: November 27, 2013, 08:28:35 PM by WhiteIrishRebel »
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