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Author Topic: do you guys just not play anymore?  (Read 2947 times)

The Boogieman

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Re: do you guys just not play anymore?
« Reply #80 on: July 14, 2018, 07:57:33 AM »

I seriously don't understand where all this Cheese discussion and "Do people hate Chese?!?!" came from. Nobody said anything directly negative about Cheese. AT BEST, I said he did a lot of work already so if he wanted to "kick the can down the road" he was fully within his rights to do that. Not trying to pile work on volunteers.

Is it not possible to separate talking about finer details of the schedule and the scheduler themselves? They are two separate entities.

Is it the phrasing? "Kick the can down the road" is super negative? I use that phrase all the time, maybe because my grandfather used it a lot. It's totally neutral to me. Depends what you're putting off.



FWIW, I'm not a fan of taking the "hey if you don't like me I'll take my shit and leave" approach when nobody is attacking you at all which is what prompted that 'inciteful' post in the first place. I don't like the impression that gives, which is why I also said "just a simple message to the captains would have been more helpful than that". If you really feel that Cheese needs 5,6,7 people coming to his defense over that statement IDK what to say about that. Save it for something that actually matters.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2018, 08:09:12 AM by The Boogieman »
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Kula

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Re: do you guys just not play anymore?
« Reply #81 on: July 14, 2018, 08:29:25 AM »

You questioned Steve's commitment and Furry jumped on that with an offer to take over implying that Steve wasn't doing a job up to Furry's/boogie standards. You get lumped together because you two started this whole dumb conversation.

The entire remaining player base then jumped in because Steve is nearly irreplaceable as an awesome person and scheduler. No one wants to see him pushed out. And to whomever suggests as much, they need to be told to fuck off.

If all Goldeye does this season is to ban you to keep Steve Cheese here then he has performed his job admirably.
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Goldeye

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Re: do you guys just not play anymore?
« Reply #82 on: July 14, 2018, 08:52:54 AM »

You realize I'm talking to Meretrix in that post right, so it's not even relating to Steve?
Yes, I realized exactly that.  Regardless of who that was directed to, it's not okay.  If you want to continue your "productive discussions" then you need to cut that out.

I didn't go back to unearth what you said about Steve in the first place because, at this moment, it doesn't matter.  You have a long history of inciting and perpetuating flamewars like this, and others' defensiveness in light of that does not excuse that trend continuing.  You, personally, need to evade flamewars if you are going to communicate here.

If I do have to punish you to remind you of how this works, I'll have to look at dig that up, and see how bad what you did was, how long it has been since your last ban, etc.
I prefer clemency in the first place...
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warrior11

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Re: do you guys just not play anymore?
« Reply #83 on: July 14, 2018, 09:35:03 AM »

join a rshl squidrin or suk dik gildeye n change scrimmich to 4v4 ty
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Fur of Fur

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Re: do you guys just not play anymore?
« Reply #84 on: July 14, 2018, 12:03:42 PM »

Kula, you are connecting the dots in a maybe logical, but very much unintended direction. My posts, in my opinion clearly show my appreciation for the scheduler and if anything concern for his well being. Aside from that, like others I seek to increase the amount of hockey being played.

Let's role back history, Kula I appointed Steve to this position in 2015 amongst the chaos of ad-hoc scheduling the season I was the LC. We had literally 4 people contributing to the schedule... With myself covering the schedule when it wasn't done. People offered to take the role on, but they failed to deliver consistently. Until Steve took up the reigns fulltime.

I checked the era, of what I scheduled, I managed to schedule like 1 or 2 "hour gap double header game days" in half a seasonish - so yeah they would be once in a blue moon, and Steves fairly pointed out the problems with this idea. You need  all the right teams to line up for this kinda occurrence... Unless as Steve said we gave him more timeslot flexibility....seems very rare. I think Steve and i even discussed this issue back in 2015, and came the same conclusions he posted here, as he's been actively scheduling ever since... He probably remembers all the said problems with this plan. I can apologize if my (repeated) plan is a frustrating one to keep having to turn down due to unfeasible circumstances. So sorry for causing frustration Mr Steve.

On the offer to do his role, he sounded pretty clear he would give it up, given the chance? My reply is of genuine concern, as burnout is a major issue for HZ volunteers, if a season break would help anyone in any position... Im sure I'm not the only person who has taken a backseat, but could help out.

So yeah I evaluates history, and Steves answers to date...and it looks a very tough idea to implement.

We would need :30 past slots and a lot more captain feedback and support to push for at best 30 min gaps. The hour gap is a pipe dream. Theirs other things which may have better reward to cost results, some potentially lie on my shoulders...so I'll see what I can do with bot related things on the feedback to date.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2018, 01:55:09 PM by Fur of Fur »
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The Boogieman

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Re: do you guys just not play anymore?
« Reply #85 on: July 14, 2018, 01:01:00 PM »

Wow, Goldeye still doesn't realize nobody respects him or gives a shit what he has to say. Kind of awkward. Somebody that wasn't me just told you to fuck off less than an hour after you tried to put the big boy pants on. Screams "respected zone leader" to me. "I didn't even read what you said about Steve but I'm going to threaten to ban you because that's all I know how to do". Alright dude, way to build upon your great legacy. You embarrass yourself on a regular basis.  ::)

We would need :30 past slots and a lot more captain feedback and support to push for at best 30 min gaps. The hour gap is a pipe dream. Theirs other things which may have better reward to cost results, some potentially lie on my shoulders...so I'll see what I can do with bot related things on the feedback to date.

This is pretty much where we stand. I'm thinking some kind of Sunday ELO ladder with pickup scrim from 7-9 before RSHL might be a decent test run as far as other events go. Could use the bot with a new table. Maybe leading up to a "scrim allstar game" or something in the middle & end of the season.

Just looking for some more opportunities to play pickup, somewhat competitive HZ. Any time we can set up where "Hey if I log in now, I might actually get to play 30 mins to an hour of hockey zone" I think is a huge step up, whether that comes between headers or some other time during the week.
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Doris Burke

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Re: do you guys just not play anymore?
« Reply #86 on: July 14, 2018, 01:08:01 PM »

You questioned Steve's commitment and Furry jumped on that with an offer to take over implying that Steve wasn't doing a job up to Furry's/boogie standards.
i didn't see it as furry saying steve isn't doing the job to his standard but more of he's willing to step up to give steve a break. steve said many times he's willing to give up the job to anyone else. that isn't a dare or anything; it's an actual offer

but fuck everyone's feeling. let's get back to discussion :)
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warrior11

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Re: do you guys just not play anymore?
« Reply #87 on: July 14, 2018, 09:02:45 PM »

will bet my life savinks that changing scrim to 4vs4 will bring a significint amount of activity and fun 2 hz
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BluckaBlucka

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Re: do you guys just not play anymore?
« Reply #88 on: July 17, 2018, 02:58:54 PM »

The problem with scrim isn't getting the amount of people. It's getting the right captains who won't select the same 12 people every game, making the rest of the zone actually hate being there.

solution = have 12 people queue up like pub does have a bot go through some saved scrim stats and scramble the teams and force goalie rotations unless someone is willing to goalie

same thing with pub

The problem with pub isn't getting the 12 people in the game. it's the fact that there are 10 L1s flying around.

solution = limit to 2 L1s per team and soft lock the L1s after the game for 20-30 seconds allowing other players to rotate to that role.

Try to simulate RSHL outside of RSHL and maybe you will see some interest from those players that only show up to RSHL cause its more fun than watching or playing with 10 retards flying around like chickens with their heads cut off


There was a time when people like Puker would trivia off spots so that everyone had a fair chance at getting in or some people afk'd in queue just to add random team and pass captain off to a none douche so that those players could remain in the game and all have a chance to experience scrimmage.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2018, 03:01:37 PM by BluckaBlucka »
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BlueGoku

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Re: do you guys just not play anymore?
« Reply #89 on: July 17, 2018, 04:07:02 PM »

The problem with scrim isn't getting the amount of people. It's getting the right captains who won't select the same 12 people every game, making the rest of the zone actually hate being there.

Yep. Experienced this yesterday. Got in a scrim. Team lost 4-3. I score all 3 goals (in a fuckin terrier) and have 85% of the team's total rating. Next cap adds everyone from that team but me. Team composed of 2 warbirds and one weasel. Guy in a weasel has a career high 1 rshl goal and 6 points. Since I'm not part of whatever dumb clique is fashionable these days in HZ, I can't get into scrim. Even guys like idk that I've historically added to scrims (or have been teammates with) choose to add complete shithead awful players over me, though they might be rshl teammates so it is what it is.

It's actually quite hilarious how it's the same guys putting up points in RSHL over the last 10+ years, but scrim is a complete gongshow of awful players adding other awful players. I guess if we really cared enough we could just grab cap and run scrim for a while, though in the hour of scrim it runs for before an RSHL game, there's not enough time to even get to the front of the queue unless you're gaming GP or whatever.

Quote
solution = have 12 people queue up like pub does have a bot go through some saved scrim stats and scramble the teams and force goalie rotations unless someone is willing to goalie

I don't think this is necessary. I think the onus is on us to do a better job of getting capt and scheduling with teammates/good players to be around at certain times for scrim. Fucking around with scrambling teams or whatever is just a bandaid and I'm not sure it'll make scrim any more attractive than pub. The solution is, honestly, just getting a stacked team (or even a competent team) on a freq until people realize that adding career high 1 goal guy to play weasel means you are playing for 6-8 minutes and that's not fun for anyone. The goal of scrim used to be to try to put together good teams to win and get a streak going.

Quote
The problem with pub isn't getting the 12 people in the game. it's the fact that there are 10 L1s flying around.

solution = limit to 2 L1s per team and soft lock the L1s after the game for 20-30 seconds allowing other players to rotate to that role.

Fully agree there. Games like league and DOTA or whatever seem to understand that you can't have 10 of 1 type of guy without seriously damaging the fun factor. Played one or two pub games yesterday. At least in scrim there was one guy playing spider. Pub was 2 warbirds, 2 weasels, me in terr and our goalie. Just awful.

With all that said, I fully expect nothing will change and we've just wasted however long it took us to type these posts.
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Fur of Fur

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Re: do you guys just not play anymore?
« Reply #90 on: July 17, 2018, 05:03:28 PM »

They are sliding down the elo rankings, for shame!
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Leafy

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Re: do you guys just not play anymore?
« Reply #91 on: July 17, 2018, 06:00:23 PM »

Yep. Experienced this yesterday. Got in a scrim. Team lost 4-3. I score all 3 goals (in a fuckin terrier) and have 85% of the team's total rating. Next cap adds everyone from that team but me. Team composed of 2 warbirds and one weasel.

Got this far and knew it was fake news
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idkidc1233

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Re: do you guys just not play anymore?
« Reply #92 on: July 17, 2018, 07:53:18 PM »

I add people that I know want to play. Half the time there's only enough people to play a scrim plus a few extra that seemingly afk in the zone for whatever reason. If you just simply ask me in pm where you can grab my attention, if I'm not already adding teammates, there's a good chance I'll add you. Not rocket science. I just about always ask and get added, unless there's a teammate game.

Also, there have been times when I add someone and they afk or don't want to play for me, or just not even wanna play scrim at all. Then some time later, they complain when I gloss over them because of this habit of not playing scrim. Like LD even commented on me being picked over him, but last I checked he rarely plays the zone outside rshl, so how would we know he, or anyone else in this case, wanted to be added before they say anything about it? I can't speak for others captaining, but how can you expect me to add you if you form these habits into our minds and then don't try to ask me to be added?
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warrior11

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Re: do you guys just not play anymore?
« Reply #93 on: July 17, 2018, 11:03:23 PM »

last time i checked scrim is fun when its competitif n there are some stakes and winnir stays on and changing scrimmich to 4v4 will provide this and a lot more activity ppl will see 5 ppl in hz 4 exampil n be much more likely to log in. then if there are 18 ppl in zone 4 exampil scrimmich will haf new playirs every game becuz only 8 cud play n will b more competitif

change scrim to 4v4 n keep up 6v6 this instint
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The Boogieman

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Re: do you guys just not play anymore?
« Reply #94 on: July 18, 2018, 09:20:47 AM »

+1 to getting rid of scrim captains and just letting people signup for scrim, scrim captains was a good system when we would scrim for 2-3 hours at a time and more competent people were captain on a regular basis. Scrim is still good but some people add some god awful teams, often repeatedly.

I try not to whine when I don't get picked for scrim (which is 95% of the time I don't offer to play goalie) but I won't lie that the title of "Scrim Captain" is maybe 20% of the time used to pick a competitive team who will get to play more scrim, and 80% of the time used to pick your friends and knowingly spend 12 minutes losing.

I understand the "I gotta pick my teammates!" angle but people really take this too far.

Maybe captains pick 2 friends and the game picks the other 6 players from a queue with a team votekick for afks/find a goalie/whatever. Next capt + 2 adds + 3 queue players. Bonus points if you can queue as a goalie and move to the front.

But that would require actual molecule editing.
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Doris Burke

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Re: do you guys just not play anymore?
« Reply #95 on: July 18, 2018, 11:32:03 AM »

you think the solution is to make scrim more like pub? You need to be able to remove people if they're being retards, lack of potential accountability is one reason why 10 ppl fly around in wb in pub. And good luck getting people to goalie if you can't just remove someone if they refuse to net. Not to mention part of the appeal of scrim is to have some type of control over your team mates. Captain system needs to stay, mods probably just need to be more active in doing things like preventing flew and co from trying to get captain on both freqs while leaving someone else in spec in the queue so they can get captain the next game.
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Re: do you guys just not play anymore?
« Reply #96 on: July 18, 2018, 12:02:47 PM »

To be fair the timest he's done that was because no one else wanted to capt / stop scrim from dying that night. Yes  there were a few occasions where that wasn't the case. Either way, that won't be a problem anymore. 
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warrior11

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Re: do you guys just not play anymore?
« Reply #97 on: July 18, 2018, 12:14:44 PM »

scrim queue is the dumbist thing idea of all times. change scrim to 4v4 and there will b a lineup of ciptins 24/7 and it wont jus b the same ppl being addid. the gud playirs will get addid most becuz teams will want to win to stay on, and the garbige playirs will get their chancis by retriefink ciptincy/maybe ther teamm8 gets ciptin. the point of scrimmich isnt 2 gif every1 a chince to play thats what pub is 4, if u r garbige playir and want 2 play then u haf 2 get ciptin or get lucky. right now many garbige playirs get 2 play scrimmich becuz its 6vs6 n they are needed 2 fill the game and every game is pretty much same playirs. 4v4 will haf more team variety n compitition

pub will still b 6v6 so garbige playirs cud still b pubbirs if they arent insirtid into 4v4 scrimmich, plz change scrimmich to 4v4 this instint 2 bring activity n sum fun compitition 2 hz ty
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Dark Messenger

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Re: do you guys just not play anymore?
« Reply #98 on: July 18, 2018, 12:17:35 PM »

Make losing team get kicked out of pub and then the q enters. Could help eliminate the 11 L1's and make it more competitive. Or just piss off everyone that gets stuck on a shit squad.

As for scrim, it's a popularity/teammates game. With 30 mins of scrim a night before rshl, 1 hour after rshl and only 10-14 players active I don't see any changes really helping it become what it once was. 
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The Boogieman

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Re: do you guys just not play anymore?
« Reply #99 on: July 18, 2018, 12:19:41 PM »

I think the fact you get removed when you lose in scrim and goals aren't automatic naturally makes the gameplay different from pub, regardless of how the players get into the game.

I agree you need control over people being retards, but at the same time I don't think being scrim captain should be a vehicle to add 5 of your friend/teammates - at least not in the current era. It puts too much onus on the captains to pick fair teams and not game the queue.

Ideally, I see scrim as more of a solo ladder than an arena strictly for "team scrims".  From that perspective, supplementing games with a pool of queued players ensures variety in the game and gives an opportunity for players who wouldn't otherwise be added often a guaranteed way to get into a competitive game.

Captains already remove people for stuff like "my teammate showed up". The number of times a captain has removed someone for a friend/teammate who was afk or not online at the start of the game vastly outnumbers the number of times a captain removes someone for a legitimate reason like trolling or refusing to goalie as the 6th man. Probably 9:1 ratio.
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